（中英双语）中国女性与多元化高端访谈记录（6)
A dialogue between Christine Liu, Founder of sHero, and Xiangwei Gong, President, DSM Hydrocolloids
Dec 18, 2017
女性领导力组织sHero创始人刘慧和帝斯曼亲水胶体总裁龚湘伟的一场对话
2017.12.18
Click for Part 1 to Part 5
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Pictured Christine and Xiangwei Dec 18. 2017
Part 6
第六部分
C: So, lastly, we would like you to give some words or best wishes for China Women and Diversity Talk. As this is the best timing, or perfect timing we can try to eliminate the false feelings and noises about men and women across the country. And we can also, you know, learn from each other so much, and also globally with other women in the world.
C: 所以，最后，我们希望邀请你在此为中国女性和多元化访谈传递一些美好的话语和希冀。这是一个最好的时间，一个完美的契机，来试图消除关于男性和女性的错误观念和杂音。我们也可以借此机会相互学习，包括和世界范围内的女性一起相互学习。
XW: Thank you Christine. First of all, please let me just tell you how impressed, how, actually, how much I admire your courage to ...to do this.
XW: 谢谢Christine, 首先，我要告诉你我多么钦佩你做这些事情的勇气。
C: Thank you.
C: 谢谢你。
XW: Yeah, because you know you have made your corporate career, and then you decided to take a different path and to do something that, that is your passion, and this is really far more impactful, I think. So you talked about bottom-line, in the corporate world, we talk about bottom-line all the time, and I contribute to the bottom-line, with what I do, I hope. But that is relatively easy, simple at least. Not easy but simple. You have a bottom-line, you have a target, you have a top-line, you just go for it.
So in your pursuit, it is even hard to define what is your, you know, real target, real goal. So it's much more abstract but much more also impactful potentially. So the way you now open this dialogue up to people, men and women, and women from diverse background and also all kinds of achievements. They come to contribute their thoughts, contribute their time, sharing their stories, their thoughts. And I think this is, a really really good way to move the whole society forward in this regard.
And I say it's much more complex and much more difficult because there is no defined goal. Because there is no goal for humanity, unlike in business. Men and women and you know traditionally…I am still… I think I still have a lot of traditional elements, men and women are still different. Women, our bodies at least, unless you know we open up… all kinds of other technology which is out there to, you know ... to have…to incubate lives, but that is not a part of this dialogue now.
XW: 你本来自己在大公司事业成功，然后你决定换一条路做一些事情，这是你的激情所在，我认为这具有远远更大的影响力。你刚谈到了经济线，在公司里，我们总是谈论财务利润线，（就我所做的工作）我希望自己对公司的财务利润线有所贡献。但是那相对来说更容易，至少目标很简单明确。不是容易而是简单。在公司里，我们有一个利润线（底线），有一个目标，有一个营业额（上线），然后就放手去做。
但是对你的追求来说，它甚至很难定义什么是真正的目标。所以它更加抽象，也更有潜在的影响力。你看现在你开启了这样一个拥有不同背景和不同成就的人们，男人、女人的一个对话。他们付出自己的时间，交流想法，分享故事。在这一点上，我认为这是一个更好的推动社会进步的方式。
我说它更加复杂，更加困难，是因为它没有一个明确的目标。因为人类是没有目标的，它不像是做生意。你知道的，关于男人和女人，我仍然，我认为我身上仍有很多的传统的因子，男人和女人他们传统上是有不同的。至少我们女性的身体，你知道，除非我们敞开允许......你知道的，所有的其它科技，去孕育生命，当然这不是现在这个对话讨论的话题。
So as long as that (relying on new technology to incubate lives) doesn’t happen or prevail, at least women bodies, our bodies are still important, crucial to carry human life forward, so in that sense, it is important to continue to nurture women in a way, even nurture their role as mothers. So, unfortunately, … this is a very important social topic, …and are companies and corporations willing to contribute and take their part in this? And for example, really really supporting women through motherhood, pregnancy, and all that? Because companies, they may feel like why should we do that, let the other companies do.
If a woman is pregnant or if a woman is going to become pregnant, have one child, second child, third or fourth… they may not say that, they may not say anything. In some countries it's illegal to do anything that is obvious at least, but we know women have to think about this, have to balance their career and motherhood. And the question is that where is the balance, how to strike that balance? Because on one hand, we want women (to have children for the society)…on the other hand, we (secretly) don’t want women (to have children for losing work labor)…
So it’s women, a lot of women who are making that choice. They say ok, I am just not going to do this, (to have children and risk my career), and I’m just continuing (work). I know a lot of very successful women, they just choose not to get married, not to have children, because they know that, maybe it’s not spoken, but they know what would happen, because if they choose to become a mother, they would have less opportunities.
There are many many companies…how do I put this, even if you will never find it in the protocol and all that, but it's still out there. So it's just very subtle. It is much more subtle than before, which is even more dangerous.
只要这个（指依赖新的技术手段来繁衍生命）不发生或者不盛行，至少女性的身体对于推动人类生命的前进依然还是很重要的，很关键的。在这个意义上来说，继续保护女性，甚至是对母亲的角色的保护也是很重要的。这是一个重要的社会的问题。我们的公司和企业愿意去贡献并参与其中吗？譬如，真正支持女性度过哺乳期和孕育期等等。不幸的是，很多公司觉得为什么我们要这样做，让其它公司去做好了。
如果一个女性怀孕或者一个女性打算怀孕，如果，她们会接着生一个孩子，两个，三个或四个孩子，他们（公司老板）可能不会那样说，他们可能不会说什么。在一些国家，做任何一些显而易见的歧视的事情都是不合法的。但我们知道女性必须考虑这件事，来平衡她们的家庭和事业。但平衡点在哪里？如何达到平衡，因为一方面我们（社会）需要女性（为人类生孩子）。另一方面我们（公司）其实不想让女性（生孩子耽误公司竞争力）...…。
所以是女性，许多女性，只好自己做出选择。她们会说，好吧，我不打算（冒着影响职场发展的风险）生孩子了，我要继续工作。我知道许多女性选择不结婚，不要孩子，因为她们知道……也许她们没有说出来……因为她们知道将来会发生什么，因为如果她们选择去做一个母亲，她们将会有更少的机会。
太多太多的公司，让我如何表述呢，即便你在任何文件中都不会发现，但是这个问题仍然会存在。现在大家对这方面的表达已经变得非常隐晦，比以前任何时候都更加隐晦，所以也比以前甚至更加危险。
So what I am saying is that what you’re doing is really really courageous and inspiring, and it's also very much very much needed, it's necessary. So on the surface, you will see a lot of success stories. Women are running this, and running that., on top of this, on top of that. But it’s really…That is not the critical factor, the critical factor is actually the middle level, or the middle upper level, or every level, about every level, how we truly incorporate women's… their needs and their role, not just in a family, but really as a society, in the society - women’s role to carry life forward - how we incorporate that in our culture, in our thinking, in our system, in our behavior. That's a big topic.
所以我想说的是，你做的事情非常需要勇气，也让人备受鼓舞。它是很有必要的，非常需要。从表面上看，你会看到许多成功的故事，女性在经营这个，经营那个，是这个公司的高层，是那个公司的高层。但是真的，......那不是关键因素，实际上关键因素是中层，中上层，或者说每一层，应该是每一层，我们如何真正考虑到让每一层的女性的需要和她们的角色融入，不仅仅是她们在家庭当中的角色，而是她们在社会，对我们的社会的角色， - 推动人类生命前进的角色，我们如何把这个重要的女性角色融入我们的文化，我们的思维，我们的体制和我们的行为。那是一个大的话题。
C: It's been so great to have you here today, Xiangwei, and for China Women Diversity Talk, and we will talk more in the future, thank you so much.
C: 湘伟，很高兴能邀请你到这里来参加这个中国女性多样性访谈。在将来我们将会有更多的会谈。非常感谢！
XW: Thank you Christine, and I wish you a lot of success, a lot of fun, and I can't wait to see more dialogue, to actually have more dialogue with other women, other men as well, and to move this topic forward.
XW: 谢谢你Christine! 我希望你拥有更多的成就，更多的乐趣。我无比期待看到你和其她女性，男性有更多的对话，并推动这个话题。非常感谢！
C: Thank you so much.
C: 非常谢谢！
XW: Thank you
XW: 谢谢！
（The End)
This is the link to the whole dialogue.
全文结束。
We hope to hear from you.
希望听到你的故事。
