「完整视频·口译」任正非CNBC最新专访全程实录：特朗普把华为捧
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美国著名财经电视频道 CNBC（美国消费者新闻与商业频道）最新播出了6月19日对华为创始人、CEO任正非的节目专访。在长达40多分钟的采访中，任正非就华为在中美贸易谈判中的角色、华为的收入下降情况、华为终端产品面临的困境、华为与中美两国政府之间的沟通、华为在全球各地市场的表现、任正非女儿的近况等问题进行了回答。
他还将华为比作会浴火重生的凤凰：“我们肩上没有太大压力。我觉得当下对我们来说是一种考验。如果经受住了，我们就会变得更强。所以，一切杀不死你的只会让你更强。在中国，我们说凤凰会浴火重生，那种烧不死的鸟就是凤凰。我们相信，我们手头上的问题会在这场大火中得到解决。”
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Q1 Deirdre Bosa: Mr. Ren. Yesterday, President Trump tweeted that he had a conversation with your president. The US sees Huawei as being at the center of the trade war. How do you see it?
1、记者：昨天特朗普总统发推特说两国领导人会有一个对话，现在美国把华为放在中美贸易的核心位置，您怎么看？
Ren: First, Huawei has virtually no presence in the US, so the trade relations between China and the US have nothing to do with us. Second, if we compare China and the US to two basketballs, Huawei is just like a small sesame seed stuck between them. There's no way we can buffer the relationship between these two countries. I believe the US is a country ruled by law. Ultimately, we will settle our issues with the US through the courts. We have confidence that the court will reach fair decisions.
任正非：第一，华为在美国就没有销售，因此中美之间的贸易问题与华为没有什么关系。第二，中美两国是两个很庞大的“球”，我们在中间只是一颗小芝麻，起不到任何减缓的作用。我认为，美国是一个法治国家，华为和美国的问题还是要通过法律来解决，我们还是相信法庭最后的判决。
Q2 Deirdre Bosa: As you said, you do not have much of a presence in the US. You don't want to be at the center of the trade war, but you have been caught in the middle. Do you have any hopes that when President Trump potentially meets with President Xi at the G20, Huawei will be a topic of conversation?
2、记者：华为可能在美国并没有多少生意，如您所说，华为并不想被搅在贸易战中间。但是您之前确实也说了，华为是被夹在中间了。那您有没有抱有一种期望，就是在G20峰会的会面中，华为成为一个谈判的话题？您有这样的期望吗？
Ren: I don't think we are so important that these two great men would want to talk about us. This seems impractical to me.
任正非：我认为，可能我们没有这么重要吧，两个伟大的人物谈话，把我们作为一个喝茶谈话的谈资？我觉得不大现实。
Deirdre Bosa: That has been the case, though. President Trump spends a lot of time talking about Huawei, as do other US officials.
记者：但是现在我们看实际情况，似乎并非如此。特朗普总统花了很多时间大谈特谈华为，美国还有很多其他的官员也花很多时间在谈华为。
Ren: It's because they are in good health and have energy to burn. They must have a lot to attend to. I feel grateful for their attention; they flatter us. We don't deserve such attention.
任正非：因为他们身体好，精力太旺盛了。他们应该有很多可操心的事情，他们来替我们操心，不辞辛苦，这一点我还是很感激的。他们把我们捧高了，我们没有这么高的地位。
Deirdre Bosa: You may not think you deserve high attention, but the fact is that, in the US, a lot of politicians, President Trump included, spend a lot of time talking about Huawei, your company.
记者：您提到华为可能并不值得大家有这么多的关注，但是看一看美国的很多政治人物，包括特朗普总统在内，他们确实是花了很多时间来谈论华为。
Ren: Maybe it's because we can't be beaten, no matter how hard they try. It is possible that we will survive for a long time. If they continue to care about us over the next few years, will they get tired out? We have been communicating with the US through different channels. The US is a country ruled by law. Legal proceedings are also a valid means of communication. Through this means, the US needs to present its evidence in court. We do as well, so that the court can decide whether we are right or wrong and to what extent we may be wrong. This is what really matters. I don't think we deserve to be treated as a bargaining chip in their negotiations, and I don't want to be a bargaining chip either.
任正非：可能是因为打不死我们，怎么打都不死，可能以后还不会死，他们要几年都这么关怀下去，是不是很疲惫？我们和美国政府的沟通，各个管道都在进行。因为美国是一个法治国家，我们在法庭里沟通，就是在和美国政府沟通。美国政府出具证据给法庭，我们也出具证据给法庭，让法庭来判断我们是有错，还是没错，还是错多少，做出裁决，这才是最主要的问题。作为一个谈判筹码，我觉得我们不值得，我们也不愿意。
Q3 Deirdre Bosa: You may not be willing, but it doesn't change the fact that President Trump has said you are a bargaining chip and the so-called attack has already affected your business. You said earlier this week that, it would hit your revenue by 30 billion US dollars.
3、记者：尽管华为不愿意成为一个谈判的筹码，但是也没法改变这个事实，因为特朗普说要在中美谈判中把华为作为一个话题，而且目前的现状已经影响到了华为的生意，您之前在采访中说过，由于美国现在针对华为的情况，华为的收入会减少300亿美元。
Ren: The 30-billion-dollar decrease in our predicted sales is just a small thing for us. Our sales will still exceed 100 billion US dollars this year. This has little impact on our business operations. We will mainly cut down on some non-core products, so the US sanctions won't have significant impact on us.
任正非：300亿美元对我们来说，是很小的一件事，我们今年的收入还会超过1000亿美元，这对我们的基本状态没有改变。我们主要是砍掉一些边缘化产品，因此美国制裁对我们不会产生太大的影响。
Deirdre Bosa: I think many people would call 30 billion US dollars material impact. It's nearly a third of your revenue last year. This affects your employees who are shareholders, does it not?
记者：但是我认为很多人会说300亿美元应该影响还是挺大的，毕竟占到了华为去年收入的1/3左右，而且对华为的员工、股东应该也有影响，难道不是这样吗？
Ren: No. According to this year's plan, our revenue was expected to reach 135 billion US dollars. Even if our revenue does drop by 30 billion US dollars, we will still have 100 billion US dollars left. Our sales revenue is still growing. By May, we had grown a bit over 20%. We are just predicting a decrease in revenue over the next few months. We haven't actually seen any hard signs of such a decrease yet. As of yesterday, our financial report showed that our revenue was still growing. We are still not sure how things will turn out by the end of year. I think a revenue drop of 30 billion US dollars doesn't mean much to us. We can afford it. We are not a public company, so we don't care that much about revenue. We care more about the actual quality of our own operations.
任正非：不是。因为我们今年的计划是1350亿美元左右，影响300亿美元左右的收入，我们还有1000亿美元左右。目前我们的销售收入还是增长的，到5月底增长了20%多。我们预测未来是可能会下降的，但是现在还没有出现下降的势头，直到昨天的报表，还没有下降，还在上升。因此，到底年底会出现什么样的状况，我们还不好肯定。但是，我认为300亿美元的下降，对我们来说是很小的一件事情，我们能承受，因为我们不是上市公司，我们不太重视这个问题。我们重视经营的真实质量。
Q4 Deirdre Bosa: Okay, let's talk about the quality of the performance in your fastest growing business unit, your consumer business, your smartphone business. You said earlier this week that smartphone shipments had declined by 40%. How can your business continue to grow if your fastest growing unit is taking a hit from what's happening between China and the US, with the US putting an equipment ban on Huawei?
4、记者：您刚才既然谈到了业务增长的质量，我们就来问一问。我们也看到了，在华为整个业务中，消费者业务的智能手机是增长最快的；您之前的采访也提到了，现在智能手机的出货量已经下滑了40%，如果由于中美关系对华为最快的增长业务有所打击的话，那么华为整个大的生意如何持续保持增长？
Ren: Our consumer business in China is not declining, though we previously saw a record decline of 40% in overseas markets. But it is now bouncing back, and its decline outside China is less than 20%. It is recovering rapidly. Throughout this year, our overall consumer business won't experience a huge decline like what we previously saw overseas.
任正非：终端在中国市场上是没有下降的，只是海外这部分最高的时候下降了40%，但是现在已经在回升，在海外下降的尺度已经小于20%了，而且还在迅速的回升之中。因此，综合来看，整个终端业务全年下降不会那么大。
For Huawei as a whole, our estimated revenue for 2019 may decrease from 135 billion US dollars to 100 billion US dollars, a figure equal to that seen in 2018. But our profits are higher than before, and they are growing faster than we could have imagined. This means we must increase our strategic investment. A recent financial briefing was finished within minutes. Now that our financial performance is better than I had expected, what's the point of listening to these briefings?
整个公司的业务，可能从原计划2019年收入规模的1350亿美元下滑到1000亿美元左右，与2018年持平。但是反过来，利润还上升了，公司现在的利润增长速度比我们想象的快，我认为利润上升太快说明应该加大对战略的投入。所以，这次财务汇报几分钟就结束了，因为比我想象的好得多，那何必要汇报呢？
Q5 Deirdre Bosa: You said profit isn't the most important thing to you. But what about your employees who are shareholders and are paid dividends based on profits that Huawei makes? How are they feeling? Are you talking to them?
5、记者：您也提到利润并不是最为重要的，但是我们知道很多华为的员工也是华为的股东，他们应该享受华为的分红，这个分红是来自于华为的盈利，您觉得华为的员工现在的想法是怎样的？您有跟他们沟通过吗？
Ren: Our employees are becoming more energetic and working harder than ever before. We will make every effort to win this "battle" of sanctions, and we know we have what it takes to win. So we are full of confidence. If you get a chance, you can talk to our employees about this.
任正非：华为员工的想法是干劲更大了，更努力了，我们一定要赢，我们有能力打赢这场制裁。因此，大家都充满了信心。有机会的话，你可以找我们的员工座谈。
Deirdre Bosa: Are you saying that your employees don't mind if profit decreases and their pay decreases?
记者：您的意思是说华为的员工并不在乎华为的利润下滑而由此导致他们的工资收入下滑吗？
Ren: Their salaries won't decrease. Huawei is completely able to pay all our employees, and we are refining our compensation structure. We have even fast-tracked the promotions of many employees who are performing well in these critical times, and given them pay rises. When it comes to long-term earnings, we need to look at our financial reports at the end of the year. They may be slightly lower than what we planned at the beginning of the year, but I think they will be better than I expected, because our profits are still very high. This gives me assurance. Therefore, I have asked our finance team not to report to me, so that I can spend more time on our technology.
任正非：首先，工资不会下滑，我们有足够的薪酬支付能力。我们也在改变激励结构，很多在关键时刻表现优秀的人员得到破格提拔，加工资。长期收益要看年底的报表，可能比年初的规划要低一点。但是看见比我心理预期高多了，利润情况仍然很好的，我的心是踏实的。我就不让财务向我汇报工作了，我去关心一些技术方面的发展。
Q6 Deirdre Bosa: How would you characterize your relationship with Google? What happens if you lose access to Google's Android operating system?
6、记者：您如何形容华为和Google的关系？如果华为没法获得Google的操作系统，如何继续推进自己的业务？
Ren: I believe Google is a great company. We have great respect for them. Huawei and Google have always shared common interests. If our products don't use their Android operating system, Google could lose 700 million to 800 million existing users. Their losses may be significant if the 200 million to 300 million new users that we are predicted to acquire each year cannot access the Android system. Our sales revenue will also drop by a certain degree in the short term, and we will have to bear these losses. This concerns our common interests. We will not replace the Android system without good reason. But if we have to take that step one day, we can still use our own operating system. Then our growth will recover.
任正非：Google是一个非常好的公司，我们很尊重它。我们和Google永远都是站在同一条利益线上的，如果我们不装载Google系统，Google将来可能要失去7-8亿用户，因为我们每年2-3亿的新用户不使用它的系统，这个损失是很大的；我们在短期内销售收入也会有一定的下降，我们也要承担损失。所以说，这是共同的利益问题，我们不会随意的替换Google的系统。但是如果说真的走到这一步，我们也有自己的系统可以替代，会恢复增长的。
Deirdre Bosa: Will your customers accept that? Already, in the Philippines, Huawei has said they would offer a full refund if their devices cannot run Google and Facebook apps. What if more customers demand this?
记者：华为的客户接受吗？我们看到在菲律宾，华为就已经表态，说如果以后华为的手机用不了Google，用不了Facebook，他们的应用可以全额退款，但是如果有更多的市场出现菲律宾这样的情况呢？
Ren: There have been impacts in global markets, but these are not as significant as many imagined. Many of our new phone functions, such as photography, are independent of Google's operating system. The most important thing that Google offers us is its ecosystem, which is excellent.
任正非：现在在国际市场上是有一些影响，但是影响没有太大。因为我们手机中有很多新功能是独立于Google系统的，比如说拍照等。Google提供给我们的最重要的是一个生态，它的生态系统是做得非常好的。
Deirdre Bosa: How can you be certain if customers are already saying they don't want to use Huawei phones if they will not have the Android operating system? How can you be so certain of this?
记者：我们现在已经看到，在市场上已经有客户明确表示，如果华为的手机用不了安卓操作系统，他们就不想用华为的产品了。
Ren: The US is now the strongest country in the world. Though the US is launching a global campaign against Huawei, the number of our customers is still on the rise. This means our customers have stronger confidence in Huawei than the US government does. This campaign has not had much impact on us, which can be clearly seen in the statistic reports coming from various business lines. We are not feeling much pressure.
任正非：美国是世界上最强大的国家，美国政府在全世界打压我们，但是现在买我们产品的客户还是越来越多，这说明客户的信心还是比美国政府的信心要大。因此，对我们没有太大影响，从我们自己各个系统的统计报表也可以看出，没有太大的压力。
Deirdre Bosa: I'm sorry, Mr. Ren, my question was, how can you be certain that consumers will want to choose the Huawei operating system over the Android operating system? What makes you confident that this will not hurt your business more than it already has?
记者：您说现在的情况对华为的影响不会进一步的恶化，您的信心来自哪里？
Ren: Things are already at their worst, so they cannot get any worse over time.We have over 80,000 R&D staff and invest 15 to 20 billion US dollars in R&D every year. Can't we solve our problems in regards to survival and development? This is where our confidence comes from.
任正非：现在已经是最恶化的时候了，以后的影响会越来越减轻。我们有8万多研发人员，每年投入研发经费在150-200亿美元，我们难道就没有能力去解决自己的生存和发展问题吗？这是我们信心的基础。
Deirdre Bosa: Mr. Ren, I'm sorry, but I'm going to ask you one more time. What makes you confident, though, that customers will be willing to use your operating system? Is it ready to roll out and what happens if, in mid-August, Google is no longer able to supply Huawei with the Android operating system?
记者：您如何能够确保消费者会想用华为自己推出的操作系统，而不是Google的安卓操作系统？Google一旦8月份停止把自己的操作系统给华为手机用，会发生什么？
Ren: I do not think anything will happen. The only thing that may happen is that while a certain number of customers may not choose Huawei, others will.
任正非：我认为不会发生什么，无非就是有一部分人不选择我们，但还是会有人会选择我们的。
Q7 Deirdre Bosa: Okay, one strategy that you are pursuing in the US is stepping up licensing patents. Even that, though, is threatened now. Senator Marco Rubio is filing legislation that will prevent that. What do you think? What is going on in terms of your patenting business and your ability to make that for some of the shortfall distinguished now through that means?
7、记者：现在看起来华为在美国的策略之一，就是利用自己的专利能力。但是我们也看到美国参议员马可.卢比奥想通过立法的手段来阻止这个策略的实施，您觉得未来华为利用专利的能力会不会由此受到影响？
Ren: The US is a country ruled by law and has the most patents in the world. Will its image be affected if the Senator's recommendation is approved by US Congress?That depends on how the world's 7.7 billion people view this matter. I have no say on that.
任正非：美国是一个法治国家，也是专利最多的国家。如果他的建议能被美国国会通过，那么美国法治国家的形象会不会受影响？要看77亿人对此的评论，我说了不算。
Q8 Deirdre Bosa: I know that you have a lot of admiration for the US. You have talked about it in the past, yet you are also a student of history. You know that empires and countries, they can decline over time. What makes you have so much trust in the US right now and so much conviction that they will treat you fairly?
8、记者：我们知道您个人对于美国有非常多的敬仰之情，您过去也多次谈到，您也是一个历史的学生。那么您对美国这么多的信任，从何而来？是什么让您这么坚信美国会公平、公正的处理现在的事情？
Ren: The US was an uncivilized country over two centuries ago. So how has it grown into the most powerful country within 200 years? The answer is openness. Talented people from around the world are willing to go to the US, where the legal, innovation, and property protection systems are mature. This has made the US what it is today. We have to learn from the US, so that we can grow stronger.
任正非：美国两百多年前还是一片蛮荒的土地，这两百多年来，美国为什么能成为世界上最强大的国家？是基于它的开放性，全世界的优秀人才愿意到美国去，美国的法制体系、创新机制、财产保护体系都很完善，造就了美国的崛起。所以，我们要向美国学习，才能使我们自己也能崛起。
The US has a long history, and one little incident does not represent its entire history. Our respect for the US won't change just because of the setback we have met. Just like we won't hate our parents because they spanked us when we were young. This is because we have lived with our parents for decades, and they spanked us only for a couple of seconds. We won't break our ties with them over those few seconds. Similarly, the incumbent US government's attack against us will play a minor role in its long history. And we have no idea how the next US president will treat Huawei.
美国的历史长河是非常长的，现在发生的一些事情只是短短的一个小插曲，不代表美国的整个历史，所以我们对美国的尊敬不会改变，不会因为我们受了一个挫折就改变。就像我们小时候，爸爸妈妈也打过我们的屁股，但是我们不会恨爸爸妈妈的，为什么？我们和爸爸妈妈几十年相处，他打我们屁股的时候就十几秒钟，不能因为十几秒钟就和家庭关系产生断裂。所以，美国现政府打击我们一下，下一届的总统也不知道是什么想法。
Q9 Deirdre Bosa: You said in the past, though, that number one breeds complacency. The US has been the number one economy in the world. Does it risk becoming complacent? Is it complacent?
9、记者：您之前也说过，做到第一之后有可能产生骄傲自满的情绪。美国现在是世界第一大国，您觉得美国会产生这种骄傲自满吗？
Ren: Perhaps. If it were not complacent, why is it falling behind others?
任正非：有可能。如果它不骄傲自满，它怎么会落后了呢？
Q10 Deirdre Bosa: The metaphor that you just used, that Huawei is similar to a child being spanked by their parents in terms of their relationship with the United States. Is there a worry that the child could be hit too hard? Are you worried about Huawei's survival?
10、记者：您刚才用了一个比喻，把华为和美国现在出现的情况比作父母对孩子“打屁股”，您有没有这样的担心，孩子被打得太狠了，您会不会担心华为的生存问题？
Ren: No. Adding Huawei to the US's Entity List will affect only our non-core products.What the US has done may lead us to cut some non-core businesses, but our globally leading products will not be impacted.
任正非：不会。因为美国的实体清单对我们的打击就是会减弱一些边缘化的产品，我们可能会裁减、关闭掉一些边缘化业务，但是对我们主要领先世界的产品，不会产生任何影响的。
Q11 Deirdre Bosa: You said that Huawei will see a new life in 2021, when the pain from the US attacks will be over. How do you get there? Does that assume that the US export ban will be lifted?
11、记者：您之前也说过，美国这个事情给华为造成的痛苦会在2021年结束，华为到2021年会重新焕发新生。那是您对于美国针对华为的制裁时间点的判断吗？您觉得那个时候制裁会停止吗？
Ren: We compare ourselves to a bullet-riddled Il-2 plane. As serious as the damage may be, the plane's engine and fuel tank are still functioning. We can mend the holes as we fly. When they are all fixed, the plane will be working as well as a normal one. We don't expect the US to lift their ban on us. Instead, we are repairing our plane so that it can continue to fly.
任正非：我们形容自己是一架千疮百孔的“烂飞机”，这个飞机被打得到处都是洞了，但是这架飞机的发动机和油箱还是好的。所以我们一边飞一边修补洞，这个洞如果修好了，我们的飞机照样飞。不是美国取消对我们的制裁，而是我们自己把飞机修好了，所以我们的飞机可以继续飞。
Deirdre Bosa: How are you preparing? Are you now developing your own chips as the ultimate goal to not rely on the US suppliers? How are you preparing to repair that airplane that you talked about?
记者：华为怎么做？我知道华为在开发自己的芯片，最终达到不依赖美国供应商的目的。华为是准备怎样修补这架破飞机的？
Ren: We are always making preparations. If we don't want to die, we need to fix our problems and weaknesses. We must first find the biggest hole in the plane and fix it. After that, we will mend the smaller holes. After they are all fixed, we will be able to fly high in the sky.
任正非：随时随地准备，我们不想死掉，就要改正我们存在的问题和缺点。我们看看飞机的哪个洞是最大的，我们先要把这个洞补起来。在大洞补完之后再补小洞，洞补完了，我们就可以自由飞翔了。
Q12 Deirdre Bosa: Two years from now, are you still buying the same amount of components from the US?
12、记者：两年之后，华为还会像今天一样，从美国的供应商那里买同样多数量的部件吗？
Ren: We may be buying even more. US suppliers have contributed to Huawei's growth over the past years. If they're allowed to sell to us, we would have no conscience not to buy from them. We definitely want to buy from them. If the US doesn't allow them to sell to us, it won't be our fault. It is our hope that we can continue to buy from them. Now we are continuing to place orders to them. It is just that they need to get approval from Washington. If they can get approval, we will still buy from them; otherwise, we will have to find other ways.
任正非：可能买得更多。因为美国供应商这些年对华为是有贡献的，当美国公司可以卖东西给我们的时候，如果不买他们的东西，我们就是没有良心，我们一定要买他们的东西。当美国不让卖东西给我们的时候，就不能怪我了。我们希望继续能买他们的东西，我们现在还是给他们下订单的，只是他们要到华盛顿去获得批准，他们如果能被批准卖给我们，我们还是买他的，如果华盛顿不批准，我们就要想一些办法。
Deirdre Bosa: Are you able to find those other ways? Have you already put preparations in place? What are those?
记者：华为能够找到其他的办法吗？针对这些领域在做准备吗？具体是什么准备？
Ren: Yes. We have to repair each of the hundreds of holes so that the plane can return safely. See, this is the bullet-riddled plane I mentioned. Huawei is like this plane, as we are also seriously damaged. It is impossible for me to explain every detail of how we are doing it. If you are interested, you can interview some of our ground-level employees, and they will tell you how we do it. I myself am not a repairer. I welcome you to visit us in two years to see whether we are having a better time than we are today.
任正非：是的。具体很多，每个洞都要补，现在有成百上千个洞，“千疮百孔”，每个洞都要补起来，飞机才能继续飞回来。给你看一张图片，就像这架烂飞机，我们也被打得千疮百孔了。我不可能系统地讲清楚我们怎么修补。但是如果你感兴趣，你可以去跟我们的基层员工访谈，花多一点时间，他们就会告诉你是怎么修的。因为我不是“修理工”。我欢迎你两年之后再来采访我们，看我们是不是活得比今天更好。
Deirdre Bosa: I would love to see that, but I'm very curious, and I still haven't received an answer or any strategy that really explains how you will get there. Will you depend on other overseas suppliers or start making the components yourself, which I know you already are, but to a greater degree?
记者：我也期待到时候再来看一看，但是我还没有获得我刚才想要的答案，就是华为针对目前情况的战略性的计划或者是想法。比如说美国供应商不供应了，华为转向其他非美国的供应商，或者说华为进一步加大自研、自有组件的比例？
Ren: These two approaches are both possible. But we will mainly rely on ourselves and focus on improving our own capabilities.
任正非：这两种方式都有可能。但最主要还是自己靠自己，提高自己的能力。
Q13 Deirdre Bosa: Are you hopeful that the trade talks between China and the US will be resolved?
13、记者：您现在寄希望于中国和美国的贸易对话能够解决吗？
Ren: We have nothing to do with the trade between China and the US, because we barely have any sales in the US. Trade between the two countries is a huge subject, and we don't know what they are negotiating. We only care about our own business. We hope that they don't mention us. We are not worth mentioning in their dialogues.
任正非：因为华为几乎在美国没有销售，我们与中美贸易没有关系。中美两国贸易这么大的事情，我们不知道他们之间要对什么话。我们关心的就是我们自己的小事情，希望对话就不要提到我们，我们就不值得他们对话。
Deirdre Bosa: Have you spoken to President Trump or any US officials?
记者：您跟特朗普总统或者是任何一位美国的官员沟通过吗？
Ren: We've been communicating with the US government through the District Court for the Eastern District of New York and the Texas court. We think we'd better solve problems through the courts.
任正非：我们通过在美国纽约东区法院、德州法院沟通，其实都是在跟美国政府沟通啊，还是通过法庭解决问题比较好。
Deirdre Bosa: Let's imagine that it really was President Trump. Would you be willing to take a phone call from him?
记者: 我们就想象一下，如果特朗普总统本人跟您打了电话，您会愿意接这个电话吗？
Ren: Of course I would be willing to take the call. We could discuss potential collaboration for shared success. The information society will be huge, and we should work together to build that society. Everyone should contribute their own efforts. Huawei has only made some accomplishments within a very narrow scope. The US is still the most powerful country in many of the remaining areas.We should work together to build the information society. That's what I would like to say.
任正非：当然愿意接这个电话，我们可以在一起沟通合作共赢。因为信息社会非常大，我们共同来建设信息社会，大家各出各的力。华为只是在一个窄窄的面上做出了一点成绩；在其余很宽广的面上，还是美国的力量最大。所以大家合作起来建设信息社会，这就是我想表达的意见。
Deirdre Bosa: What would you tell him about national security concerns regarding Huawei?
记者：针对华为的国家安全的担忧，您会告诉特朗普总统哪些信息？
Ren: I would tell him that the atmosphere is only about 1,000 kilometers thick, but the cloud of the information society will be several thousand kilometers thick. That will mean a huge market and numerous opportunities. It won't be a zero-sum game, and everyone will need to work together to build such a huge information society. Huawei is just a step ahead of others in the field of connectivity. The US has a wide range of strong capabilities, and can secure a large share in this huge cloud.
任正非：我会告诉他，大气层厚度只有1000多公里，将来信息社会云的厚度不会低于几千公里，这么庞大的未来市场，有大量的机会，不是零和游戏，而是大家共同建设这样一个很大的信息社会。华为只是在联接领域里稍微走快了一步；美国有广泛强大的力量，可以在这个大云中占有更大的份额。
Q14 Deirdre Bosa: Have you spoken to the Chinese president or any other senior Chinese officials about Huawei's role in the trade war and these sorts of attacks that the business is facing?
14、记者：您跟中国的主席或其他高级别政府官员有过沟通吗？关于华为在贸易谈判中的角色，以及华为的生意遭受的各种打击。
Ren: How could I set up a meeting with them to discuss such specific issues?Huawei's issues are small issues to China as a whole. They are as small as a sesame seed to the US. I don't think they are worth discussing. We can solve these issues on our own. We believe in US law, and we can solve the issues between the US and ourselves through the law.
任正非：我怎么会有机会见到他们，去谈这么具体的问题？华为的问题摆在中国的桌面上，只是一个很小的问题；摆在美国的桌面上还不够芝麻大，所以不值得拿到桌面上来讨论。我们自己有能力解决，我们还是相信美国的法律，通过法律来解决华为和美国的关系问题。
Deirdre Bosa: You have 180,000 employees. You are one of the biggest companies not only in China but also in the world. Why would it be strange to talk to Chinese government officials when you are such an important company to China and the world?
记者：华为现在是一家18万员工的公司，是中国乃至全世界最大的公司之一。为什么您会说跟中国政府官员沟通是一件奇怪的事情？因为毕竟华为不仅对于中国，对于全世界都是一家重要的公司。
Ren: We are capable of solving our own issues, and we are fully confident of this. Why should we ask others for help? The US released its sanctions list against Huawei a while ago now. However, nothing has changed in our company. If you tour around our company, you can see how our employees are doing, and that everything has been business as usual. You should visit our production lines, which are operating as usual. Therefore, we don't need help from anyone.
任正非：我们自己完全有信心、有能力能解决这个问题，为什么要去求助别人呢？美国的制裁清单已经出来一段时间了，但公司没有什么变化，如果你能参观一下公司，就可以看到员工的情绪没受影响，还在正常工作、生产，特别要看一下我们的生产线，生产线上的流水还在哗哗的流。所以，我们不需要求助别人。
Deirdre Bosa: I didn't ask if you would ask for help. I asked if you would speak to Chinese officials. What happens to Huawei will affect the Chinese economy, will it not? Maybe not now, but it will if your business continues to decline. Your revenue is more than that of Alibaba and Tencent combined.
记者：我并不是说您去向中国政府求助，而是说跟中国政府的官员进行沟通。因为华为的问题也会影响到中国经济的发展，可能现在没有影响，但是如果华为的业务持续萎缩的话就会有影响了，毕竟华为的体量已经超过了阿里巴巴和腾讯的总和。
Ren: We are not under any pressure. We believe the attacks by the US government are a test for Huawei. If we can survive this, we will become stronger. In China, we say "rise from the ashes like a phoenix" and "from the ashes the phoenix is reborn". If we manage to survive the fire, we will become stronger. During this process, we will be able to identify outstanding employees and promote them faster. Those employees who lag behind can choose to leave Huawei. In this way, our team will become stronger in three to five years. By then, we may have already put the difficulties we are facing behind us, laying a solid foundation for rapid development in the future.
任正非：主要是我们没有压力，我们认为这次打击对我们是一个考验，如果我们在这个烈火中能够“脱胎而出”，我们会更强大。中国有两句话，“浴火重生，凤凰涅槃”，“烧不死的鸟就是凤凰”。大火烧我们，我们自己想办法克服，那我们就强大了。而且我们也知道哪个员工是最优秀的，他应该快一点晋升；哪些员工是落后的，他们可以离开。这样我们的队伍在三、五年后就会更强大、更整齐了，那时候我们可能摆脱了困境，就有大踏步发展的基础。
Deirdre Bosa: You are saying that you do not talk to Chinese officials about Huawei's business?
记者：您刚才是说华为不想就华为的情况与中国政府进行沟通，对吗？
Ren: That's correct. When a couple has two children and prefers one to the other, the child who is loved more often turns out to be mediocre, and the other, who gets less attention, usually ends up becoming outstanding. Why is that? The spoiled child is usually unmotivated to become better.
任正非：是的。如果一个家庭里有两个小孩，一个小孩是爸爸妈妈最宠爱的，一般都没出息；另一个爸爸妈妈不太管的这个小孩，反而出类拔萃。为什么？爸爸妈妈的溺爱和袒护，使他丧失了自我进取的能力。
Huawei is like the other child. Throughout our 30-year history, we have relied on ourselves to grow. We have become very tough and are able to stand any pressure or attacks. In the current situation, we must continue relying on ourselves, get up off the ground, and forge ahead. I believe we will survive this. That's why we have compared Huawei to an aircraft riddled with bullet holes. We want our employees to fix those holes. We have no idea which exact hole each employee can fix, because all of our 180,000 employees are busy fixing holes.
我们公司三十年来就是靠自己走过来的，因此我们都是钢筋铁骨，压也压不垮，打也打不倒。我们现在还要靠自己的力量从地上爬起来再前进，相信我们能活过来。所以，我们用一架“烂飞机”来做比喻，我们现在已经被打成千疮百孔了，弟兄们，你们赶快来补洞啊。到底谁能补哪个洞？我并不知道，因为18万人都在补洞。
Deirdre Bosa: If Huawei is a child though, and the Chinese government is the parent, the child would be talking to the parent, would it not? I find it hard to believe that you don't discuss business with (Chinese government) officials. In the US, companies regularly talk to lawmakers.
记者：如果华为是这个孩子，那中国政府就是父母了，所以我很难理解，这个孩子不会跟父母进行沟通。因为美国的公司是会定期与立法机构进行沟通的。
Ren: US companies must abide by the law. It's perfectly normal for them to talk to the government. Regarding our relationships with the US, we can overcome the difficulties we are facing, and we don't need help from anyone to do this.
任正非：美国企业要遵从法律，他们和政府沟通是正常的。但是在华为和美国关系的这件事情上，我们可以战胜自己面临的困难，不需要求助。
Q15 Deirdre Bosa: The export ban against Huawei is already having an effect on American companies that sell to you. We are seeing it in their forecasts for revenue and profits in the year ahead. Are they talking to US officials on Huawei's behalf? Are they trying to lift the export ban or at least get some exemptions?
15、记者：现在针对华为的出口禁令，已经对与华为合作的美国公司生意造成了影响。我们看到影响已经体现在这些公司对于未来一年的收入和利润的预期上。这些与华为合作的美国公司，他们有没有代表华为去跟美国的政府官员沟通？他们有没有试图推动解除针对华为的出口禁令或者试图获得豁免？
Ren: I don't know whether US companies will be able to lift the ban or not. The US attacks on Huawei are hurting both Huawei and US companies. Our revenue will drop, and so will theirs. In fact, many of these US companies are public companies, and drops in revenue will have a bigger impact on them. Huawei is not a public company, and we don't have to take responsibility for drops in revenue. That's also one benefit of not going public.
任正非：他们有能力解除美国的禁令吗？我不知道他们能不能解除禁令。所以说，打击我们，双方都是痛苦的。我们的销售收入会下降，他们的销售收入也会下降。他们是上市公司，影响大一点；我们没有上市，不需要承担股价下降的责任，这就是我们不上市的好处。
Deirdre Bosa: Do you or your executives talk to executives at American companies, your suppliers?
记者：您或者华为其他高管有没有和华为美国供应商的高层进行沟通呢？
Ren: I think all our senior executives have reached a consensus on this. The attacks against us by the US government did not divide our senior management team. We are actively communicating with US suppliers, and continuing to request deliveries and place orders. We will not stop placing orders with US suppliers due to US restrictions. If the ban is lifted one day, how will they be able to ship products to us if we haven't placed orders with them? So we are still sending delivery requests. It's another issue that our US suppliers currently cannot deliver to us. We are trying to find a solution for that.
任正非：我们整个高管层在思想认识上是比较统一的，美国政府对我们的打击，没有造成我们高管层思想上的分裂。我们都要积极去与美国供应商沟通，要请求发货，要继续下订单。不能因为美国一制约，我们就不发订单给人家了，万一解除禁令，我们没订货，他们怎么发货呢？所以，我们发货的请求还是在的。至于不发货，是另外的问题，我们再想办法。
We still respect US companies, and we feel sorry for them. They have helped us in the past. Now they are also suffering, because of their partnerships with us. But what can I do? It was the US president who made this decision. There is nothing I can do to change the situation.
我们还是尊重美国公司，也心疼他们，他们曾经帮助我们，现在他们也在受磨难，因为跟我们在一起而受到磨难。但我有什么办法呢？这是美国总统要这么做的，我也没有能力改变这个局面。
Deirdre Bosa: Are they advocating on Huawei's behalf?
记者：这些美国公司有没有代表华为去推动解决这些事情？
Ren: I don't know about that.
任正非：这我不知道。
Q16 Deirdre Bosa: Who has more to lose in the trade war: China or the US?
16、记者：您认为在贸易战中，是中国还是美国有可能会输得更多？
Ren: The trade war has nothing to do with me. How could I know whether the US or China has more to lose? We have virtually no sales in the US, so the tariffs imposed by the US government have nothing to do with Huawei. We are not engaged in these affairs at all, and I don't care about the trade war between China and the US.
任正非：贸易战与我一点关系都没有，我怎么会知道是美国输还是中国输呢？因为华为在美国没有销售，所以美国加关税也跟我们没有关系。我们没有参与任何事情, 我也不关心中美两国之间的贸易战。
Deirdre Bosa: Mr. Ren, you are the CEO of a global company. You have business all over the world. Are you saying that you don't care about the outcome of the trade war?
记者：您是一个全球化公司的CEO，您的公司在全球都有业务，您不关注贸易战的结果吗？
Ren: No, I don't care.
任正非：不关注。
Q17 Deirdre Bosa: Do you care about your ability to do business in the United States? Do you think that it's appropriate for US companies like Google, Facebook, and Twitter to be banned in China while you advocate access to the US market?
17、记者：您关注华为在美国做生意的能力吗？一方面美国的公司像Google、Facebook、Twitter在中国被禁了，另一方面华为是不是在积极寻求进入美国市场？
Ren: No, I don't care. I would guess we will not be able to do business in the US for a long period of time, so I don't care whether the US will let us into their market or not. Even if they open their market to us, we may not be able to do business there, because it takes a long time to build a system.
任正非：没有。我估计我们在相当长时间内是不可能在美国做生意的，所以我不关心美国还会不会让我们进去。美国即使开放了让我们去做生意，我们也不一定有能力去做，因为建立一个体系需要很长的时间。
Whether it's the US banning Huawei or China banning other companies, these are actions taken by sovereign states. This has nothing to do with our company.
美国禁止我们进入美国市场和中国禁止别的公司，这是主权国家各自的行为，这跟华为没有什么关系。
Deirdre Bosa: You are not advocating for access to the US market?
记者：华为没有积极推动，要去获取，至少是争取进入美国市场的权利吗？
Ren: No. It would only be a waste of resources.
任正非：没有推动，不浪费精力。
Deirdre Bosa: Would it be a waste of your resources? Because you are putting a lot of resources into it. Again, you are sitting here with me. You have hired lobbyists. You employed executives to speak to American media on a regular basis. Why bother if you don't want access?
记者：您现在在这里跟我进行交流，而且华为也雇佣了很多说客。你们的高管也在定期与美国媒体沟通。这是为什么？如果华为本身就不想进入美国市场，为什么要费这么大的周折？
Ren: We have been investing resources to engage with the media not because we want to enter the US market, but because we want to dispel the many misunderstandings the US has about us. The US government is not just going against us within the US, it has been lobbying against us around the world. Pompeo has been flying worldwide for all kinds of meetings. And Huawei is one of the top-three items on Trump's meeting agendas during his visits to other countries. So we also need some publicity in the US to exert some influence.
任正非：我们投入媒体资源进去，并不是为了进入美国市场，而是为了消除误解。因为美国政府不仅仅是在美国境内，而是到全世界去游说，蓬佩奥一会儿飞到这里开会，一会儿飞到那里开会；特朗普去有些国家谈问题，三个题目中还有一个是华为。所以，我们在美国也要说一点话，产生一点影响。
Q18 Deirdre Bosa: Do you care about your access to other markets like Europe and Australia that are now considering their relationships with you?
18、记者：您关注华为在其他市场的准入问题吗？比如说欧洲、澳大利亚，他们也正在考虑或者审视与华为的关系。
Ren: We have been engaging with European customers for 20 years and our customers there have great trust in us. Europe has not rejected us up until now, so we will continue to provide better services to European people. This is a commitment we are not going to change.
任正非：欧洲的客户与我们有二十年的交往，客户对我们是非常信任的。欧洲至今为止也没有拒绝我们，所以我们还是要加大对欧洲人民的服务，这一点我们不会改变。
Deirdre Bosa: How important is it for you to keep that access, and doesn't that depend on what the US does, as they put pressure on their allies to stop doing business with Huawei?
记者：要保持这些市场的市场准入，对华为有多重要？多大程度上这些市场的持续准入，取决于美国针对这些国家的施压行为？
Ren: It hasn't affected us much, because our customers still trust us. If they still trust us under such high pressure, their trust in us will only increase when such pressure is relieved. What if we can't meet their demand then? I'm actually more concerned about this right now.
任正非：美国的施压并没有起多大作用，因为客户还是信任我们的。客户在这么高压下都能这么信任我们，一旦这个压力释放以后，客户对我们的需求可能会像“井喷”一样喷射出来，那时候如果我们生产供不上怎么办？我还发愁呢。
Deirdre Bosa: Mr. Ren, you are already losing customers across the world. Australia has banned Huawei equipment.
记者：但华为也正在失去全世界的一些客户，比如澳大利亚就已经把华为的设备给禁了。
Ren: Australia has the right to make its own decisions, why would I worry about this so much?
任正非：澳大利亚有自己的选择权，我们为什么要那么重视呢？
Deirdre Bosa: Europe is a big market and one of your most important markets. They are considering the same measures?
记者：欧洲是华为的大市场，而且也是华为非常重要的一个基地，它们也正在考虑啊？
Ren: Not that I'm aware of. Europe still welcomes us.
任正非：没有，欧洲对我们还是欢迎的。
Q19 Deirdre Bosa: Mr. Ren, for many years you didn't speak to the media. In the last six months, you have spoken to many media outlets. Why are you here sitting down with me, a journalist from an American organization, if you don't care about the trade war, and you don't care about doing business in the US?
19、记者：过去您很少出来与媒体交流的，但是过去六个月中，您与很多媒体在进行交流。如果说您不关心中国和美国的贸易战，您不关心华为有没有能力在美国做生意，您今天为什么要跟我坐在一起，跟一个来自于美国的媒体组织的记者坐在一起？
Ren: First, since last December, over 90% of the global media coverage on Huawei has been relatively negative, because the media didn't know the real situation. Our public relations department believes that we need to show the real Huawei to the world. Since I rarely spoke to the media, our PR people thought that the media might be a bit curious about me. So I started meeting and talking more with the media. Positive coverage now accounts for around 27%, and is slowly increasing to 30%. This is helping people worldwide learn more about Huawei. I've spoken a lot over the past six months, and will probably speak more in the next six months. I hope these efforts can help the world understand us better.
任正非：第一，去年12月份以后，全球媒体对我们的报道90%以上是偏负面的报道，因为不了解真实情况。公共关系部认为需要让世界看见真实的华为。大家认为我以前不见媒体，媒体对我就有一点好奇。所以我就和大家见一见，多沟通以后，现在媒体正面声音已经到达27%了，慢慢地会到达30%，让世界人民对华为多了解一些。过去六个月我多说话，未来六个月可能我还会说得更多，希望能够让世界增加更多明白。
Besides, I have enjoyed today's interview, because your questions are sharp. You don't dance around things, and I'm very sincere. I haven't avoided any of your questions. This way, we want to show the real Huawei to the American people. After all, they still don't know much about us. Many Americans have never been to China, and many of them have probably only seen films showing China as it was 100 years ago. They may think Chinese people are still very conservative, wearing their hair in long queues, like they did during the dynastic period. Many American people don't know that China has made huge progress in the Internet age. The more I talk, the better people will know about the real Huawei.
而且我今天特别喜欢你，因为你提的问题很尖锐，没有回避任何问题，我的回答也是很真诚的，我没有回避任何问题。这样，我们给美国人民展现出来一个真正的华为，因为他们还是不够了解，很多美国人没有来过中国，他们可能看的还是我们一百多年前的电影，以为我们还留着一个大辫子、戴着一个瓜皮帽、拄着拐棍、拿着大烟袋……很保守的状况，他不知道中国的互联网时代已经有很大的进步了。我出来多讲讲，能让大家更加了解真实的华为。
Deirdre Bosa: You said you haven't avoided any of my questions. With all due respect, I disagree. You have avoided some of my questions, such as what is your strategy for the export ban that is already hurting your business?
记者：任先生，恕我直言，其实我问的有些问题，您没有正面回答。比如，华为采取了什么策略来应对美国的出口禁令？
Ren: I think I have answered your questions. We don't rely on chips from the US. We have developed our own chips and our own operating system, and we will continue to mature as time goes on.
任正非：回答了。因为我们本身就可以不依赖美国芯片，我们自己有芯片。对于操作系统，时间会让我们成熟起来的。
Deirdre Bosa: You didn't tell me what makes you optimistic that your customers around the world will accept your operating system, not the Android operating system.
记者：还有一个问题，您刚才也没有正面回答。为什么您这么乐观，认为华为的全球客户会选择华为自己开发的操作系统？而不是继续使用安卓操作系统？
Ren: In reality, we haven't seen a drop in our total orders worldwide. Most of our orders are for networking equipment, and that's our major product. We have barely seen a drop there. There has been a lot news about countries saying they are launching their 5G networks. Many of them are using Huawei's equipment.
任正非：从事实看，我们现在世界上的订单并没有萎缩。我们最主要的订单是在网络联接设备上，这是我们的主要产品，几乎没有萎缩。全世界很多国家在不断发布新闻说“我们的5G开通了”，很多用的是华为的设备。
I think only our consumer business has felt some of the impact. But our consumer business is a peripheral business; it's not our major business. Because of this, I don't think it's a big deal that this business has been affected a little bit.
所以如果说对我们的影响，仅仅是对终端有一点点影响，但是终端在我们公司本身就是一个副业，不是主要业务。所以，影响一点有什么关系呢？
Deirdre Bosa: The consumer business is not the most major business of Huawei? I've seen your financial results. It's the fastest growing and the biggest part of Huawei. And you said earlier this week that smartphone shipments have declined 40% in the last month.
记者：消费者业务不是华为最重要的业务吗？我看了华为的财务报表，消费者业务现在在华为整个业务中占比很高，也是华为增长最快的业务。您本周早些时候也说过，上个月消费者业务的智能手机出货量已经下滑了40%。
Ren: Then why is the US attacking our 5G, rather than our consumer business? Because we are a leader in 5G, and 5G is networking equipment, not devices. I think what really matters is our position in the international market for networking equipment. Our consumer business outside China has been affected a little bit, but our consumer business in China is actually growing. Overall, there is not a big drop, and I don't think it's a big deal.
任正非：美国为什么打击我们的5G，为什么不打我们的终端？就是因为我们5G很厉害，5G是网络的联接设备，不是终端。所以，最重要还是我们的联接设备在国际上所占有的地位。终端仅仅是海外业务受了点影响，国内业务反而增长了，综合起来，整体下降不会那么大，不算多大问题。
Q20 Deirdre Bosa: Mr. Ren, I know that transparency is very important to you. That's why you are sitting down with me and other members of the media. Why does Huawei continue to be a private company? Have you considered becoming a public company?
20、记者：我知道对您来说，展现透明很重要，这也是为什么您今天跟我交流，包括之前跟其他媒体交流的原因。为什么华为一直坚持自己是一家民营企业，有没有考虑过成为一家上市公司？
Ren: Would Huawei survive if it were a public company today? Our share price would have fluctuated or even plummeted, causing the company to collapse. As we are a private company, we will not see a big impact even if our revenue drops by tens of billions of US dollars. We will still be able to pursue our ideals.
任正非：如果今天我们是上市公司，还能活下来吗？可能我们的股价波动、一泻千里，公司就崩溃了。我们是私有公司，下降几百亿美元对我们没有太大影响，我们的理想还是要实现的。
In this way, I think being a private company works better for us than being a public company. Public companies mainly focus on short-term interests and their current financial results, and they dare not make long-term investments. But we are different. We can invest in things that are 10 or even 20 years away. This will enable us to stay far ahead of others, rather than just take the narrow lead that we have today in 5G. These are the benefits we enjoy as a private company.
所以，我们作为私有公司，远比作为上市公司要好。上市公司主要注重短期利益，要看当期的财务报表，不敢长远投资，我们不同，我们可以对未来十年、二十年都投资。所以未来我们会越来越领先，而不仅仅是今天5G领先的这一点，这就是私有公司的好处。
Deirdre Bosa: Mr. Ren, companies much bigger than yours have not only survived hard times but survived as public companies. And Huawei has a transparency issue in the US. So, I'm not sure I understand your argument as to why you wouldn't become a public company. And talking about R&D, there are also companies bigger than yours that are public and they spend just as much, if not more, on R&D.
记者：有很多体量比华为还大的上市公司成功渡过了困难时期。华为现在在美国面临透明度问题，我其实并不是很理解您刚才说的不上市的原因。在研发投入方面，现在有很多比华为规模更大的上市公司，他们的研发投入并不比华为少。
Ren: Then they should have done better than us, right? But why does the US attack our 5G?
任正非：那它们应该比我们做得还好，美国何必还要打击我们的5G呢？
Deirdre Bosa: Let me give an example. Facebook in the United States is under attack, but their share price has continued to grow as they adjust their business. So why would being a public company prevent Huawei's survival?
记者：再给您举个例子，现在Facebook在美国也是面临着很多的攻击，但是由于他们调整了业务，股价在不断上涨。我想问，为什么上市会给华为的生存带来挑战？
Ren: First, I want to say we fight for our ideals. If we were a public company, many employees would sell their shares and leave the company under today's circumstances. But now, our employees are more united and work even harder. This is how we are overcoming these difficulties. I think this is the benefit for not going public.
任正非：我认为，我们是为了理想而奋斗，如果我们是上市公司，可能很多员工抛了股票就走掉了。但是现在我们员工抱成一团努力前进，内部力量很团结，所以我们有战胜困难的基础，这就是我们没有上市的好处。
Second, public companies are very rich. We are the poorest tech company. Despite that, we are the world's fifth largest investor in scientific research. We will further increase our investment in this regard, despite some financial difficulties that we are facing today. Our business might shrink a little bit, but we will not reduce our investment in scientific research during hard times. We will continue to invest 15 to 20 billion US dollars into scientific research each year.
第二，在财务上，他们很有钱，我们是最穷的科技公司。但是我们在科研投资的力度上，已经排在全世界第五名了，以后还会加大投资。尽管我们今天会遇到一定的财务困难，会有稍微的收缩，但是我们不会因为在困难时期就削减科研经费，每年150-200亿美元的科研投资不会减少。
Q21 Deirdre Bosa: A lot of Huawei's current problems stem from issues with trust and transparency, and skepticism that Huawei operates separately from the Chinese government. Have you considered creating an autonomous subsidiary outside of China that would be beyond the reach of Chinese law?
21、记者：华为今天面临的很多问题，归根结底是信任问题、透明问题，以及有人对华为能否独立于中国政府自行运作的怀疑问题。华为有没有考虑在海外设立一个完全自治的、不受中国法律管辖的子公司？
Ren: No.
任正非：不会。
Deirdre Bosa: If not, how can you change the perception that Huawei is an extension of the Chinese state?
记者：如果不这样做，华为怎么改变有些人对华为的认知，认为华为是中国这个国家的延伸？
Ren: Who can unify the thinking of 7.7 billion people around the world? People think differently. As long as our customers understand us, then that's enough. We don't need to take additional measures to make everyone understand us. It doesn't matter if some people don't. History will prove what kind of company we are. It has already done so over the past 30 years. If we can survive in the next 30 years, history will further support us. Why do we have to prove ourselves by going public?
任正非：谁能统一77亿人的思想？总会有人这样那样的想法，只要客户对我们认知就够了。我们不需要为了人人认知，而采取一些另外的措施。他不理解就不理解，历史会证明我们是怎么样的公司，过去三十多年的历史已经证明了我们，如果未来三十年我们能活下来，更能证明。为什么一定要通过上市才能证明呢？
Deirdre Bosa: I'm not asking about being listed. I'm talking about creating an autonomous subsidiary outside of China if that would help your business if it continued to suffer around the world, and if that prevented the 30-billion-dollar hit to revenue. Would you consider creating an autonomous subsidiary outside of China if it would help your business and ensure Huawei's survival?
记者：我刚才问的并不是华为上市的问题，而是说在海外设立一个完全自治的子公司。如果这样能够解决华为现在在全球面临的问题，使华为免受300亿美元规模的冲击，确保华为能够活下来，您会考虑吗？
Ren: 30 billion US dollars is not a big deal. We don't have to change our overall operating mechanism. We will prove to people around the world that Huawei is a good company. We want customers to find this out through their own experiences. We don't need politicians who know little about technology to understand us.
任正非：300亿美元不算什么，我们没有必要改变整个运作机制。我们向全世界人民证明华为是一个好公司，是让客户在体验中感受到，并不需要一些不懂得技术的政治家们能理解。
Deirdre Bosa: So, under no circumstances would you consider creating an autonomous subsidiary outside of China, under no circumstance whatsoever?
记者：无论如何您都不会考虑在中国以外设立一个完全自治的子公司，是这样吗？
Ren: We have subsidiaries in more than 100 countries. They are independent. They were not set up to prove ourselves to politicians, but to ensure compliance. We are committed to abide by the laws of the countries where we operate, as well as UN resolutions and international laws.
任正非：在中国以外，我们在一百多个国家都有子公司，这些子公司也是独立的。但并不是为了向政治家证明，而是为了解决合规问题，我们致力于遵守所在国家的法律，遵守联合国协议，遵守国际法。
Q22 Deirdre Bosa: I want to ask you about your daughter, Meng Wangzhou, being held in her own home in Canada, awaiting her extradition trial. While this is certainly an undesirable position, she does have access to her home, to visitors, and to her lawyers. The Canadians detained in China are not getting the same treatment and from Canada's point of view, they are being treated unfairly. Do you think that's appropriate?
22、记者：您女儿现在被扣押在加拿大自己的家里，等待美国引渡的审判。这种处境当然不太好，但是她还是可以待在自己的家里，可以和自己的律师进行沟通。而那些在中国被捕的加拿大人并没有受到同等待遇，从加拿大的角度来看，这是不公的，您怎么看？
Ren: First of all, my daughter is not guilty. She didn't commit a crime. The Skycom business in Iran was clearly understood by the bank throughout the entire process. We have exchanged emails, and each email has their logos. They know about the company and the transaction settlement. My daughter just said something over a cup of coffee with them in a café. This has somehow now become significant evidence of a crime. My daughter's issue can be clarified and resolved, as long as the court discloses the evidence. The District Court for the Eastern District of New York can ask the prosecutors any questions they need to, and our lawyers can also ask them questions, then both sides can present their evidence. The truth will then be revealed. As I said, the bank knew about the transactions from beginning to end. How can something my daughter said over a cup of coffee become evidence of a crime? But we believe that the US and Canadian judicial systems are open and transparent, and we believe that this issue will be solved eventually. So we are waiting patiently for a resolution, and I don't feel too aggrieved.
任正非：首先，我女儿是没有犯罪的，没有犯罪事实。SKYCOM公司与伊朗以往的交易，这家银行从头到尾是全清楚的，它与我们往来是有邮件的，邮件带有它的唛头。他们清楚公司，而且他们也清楚交易结算。我女儿只是中间阶段在一个咖啡厅跟他们喝咖啡的时候说了一句话，就成为了我女儿的重大罪证。只要法庭把这些证据公开，美国纽约东区法院可以去提问检举人，我们的律师也可以去提问，证明这段历史，双方出具证据，我女儿的问题是可以澄清、解决的。这个银行从头到尾是知晓情况的，我女儿只是喝咖啡的时候说了一句话，怎么就成了罪证？我们相信美国和加拿大的司法是公开透明的，我们相信这个问题是逐步能够解决的，所以我们耐心等待法律解决，我也没有感到委屈。
Deirdre Bosa: You believe the system is open and transparent in Canada. But do you think it's appropriate that she is in her own home with access to visitors and lawyers, while those Canadians detained in China are not receiving the same treatment? Do you think that's appropriate?
记者：您刚才说，您是相信加拿大的司法体系是开放、透明的。我刚才的问题是，一方面您的女儿在加拿大待在自己的家里，访客、律师都可以跟她进行接触，但是在中国被扣留的加拿大人却没有同等的待遇，您觉得这合适吗？
Ren: That's an issue between countries. I'm focusing all my attention on repairing our aircraft, and checking which parts are riddled with bullets and might need patches. Currently, I don't even have time to worry about my daughter, so how could I possibly care about other things? The issue you brought up will be settled through negotiations between governments.
任正非：那是国家的问题，我怎么知道呢？我现在主要精力在修“飞机”，就看我们的“飞机”哪里有洞、哪里要补。我连女儿的事都关心不上，哪里还有精力关心别的事情呢？那些事情政府之间会交涉解决。
Q23 Deirdre Bosa: Mr. Ren, thank you very much for being candid and taking this interview.
23、记者：任先生，非常感谢您今天接受我们的采访。
Ren: I believe we will have the opportunity to meet again. And I hope that when we meet next time, our aircraft has been repaired and it is still flying. Then you will be welcome to visit us again.
任正非：我们下次还有机会再见。希望那时候我们的“飞机”已经补好了，还在飞，那时欢迎你再来。
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